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	<title>Comments for ACRL's Intellectual Freedom Committee Blog</title>
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		<title>Comment on The Way to Address Controversy by Michaeljo</title>
		<link>http://www.acrl.ala.org/ifc/2009/09/the-way-to-address-controversy/comment-page-1/#comment-1761</link>
		<dc:creator>Michaeljo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jun 2010 14:28:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.acrl.ala.org/ifc/?p=97#comment-1761</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I read about it some days ago in another blog and the main things that you mention here are very similar]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read about it some days ago in another blog and the main things that you mention here are very similar</p>
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		<title>Comment on “Librarians” and “Pornography” by John</title>
		<link>http://www.acrl.ala.org/ifc/2009/10/%e2%80%9clibrarians%e2%80%9d-and-%e2%80%9cpornography%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-539</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 13:39:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.acrl.ala.org/ifc/?p=116#comment-539</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I hate the term intellectual freedom. While I disagree with censorship, the term intellectual freedom seems to indicated a lack of responsibility. I am sorry, but even public libraries must be responsible. The two librarians in question did indeed act responsibly, the library did not. I applaud the fact you agree that the firings were over the top, they were definitely that, but in this particular library, which I know because I am a resident of Jessamine County the graphic novels (which I love to read myself) are right next to the teen section. I understand that one of the two librarians fired for this actually was willing to compromise when the issue first came up and ask that the graphic novel section be moved so as not to be next to the teen section. A stop gap measure true, but one that would have saved a lot of trouble and heartache. 

The whole problem is the idea of responsibility, intellectual freedom is a fine term to spout when one feels threatened, however, there is also a responsibility that comes with that freedom, and the American Library Association is obviously all about denying that responsibility with the cute little phrase &quot;it must be the responsibility of the parent...&quot; All fine and dandy until we take a look at what is happening in public schools and with teen culture. 

I do not advocate Nazi style censorship by any means, but there is a certain point where some things are to be considered obscene, and even some comic book shop owners have stated that this particular issue of The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen is obscene and should be for mature readers only, one even went so far as to say she has warned parents of its content before they made the purchase for their children, because like most people with a dose of common sense, she realizes not every parent takes the time to read or look through what their children are reading. If they did the Gossip Girl &quot;genre&quot; of books wouldn&#039;t be on shelves.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hate the term intellectual freedom. While I disagree with censorship, the term intellectual freedom seems to indicated a lack of responsibility. I am sorry, but even public libraries must be responsible. The two librarians in question did indeed act responsibly, the library did not. I applaud the fact you agree that the firings were over the top, they were definitely that, but in this particular library, which I know because I am a resident of Jessamine County the graphic novels (which I love to read myself) are right next to the teen section. I understand that one of the two librarians fired for this actually was willing to compromise when the issue first came up and ask that the graphic novel section be moved so as not to be next to the teen section. A stop gap measure true, but one that would have saved a lot of trouble and heartache. </p>
<p>The whole problem is the idea of responsibility, intellectual freedom is a fine term to spout when one feels threatened, however, there is also a responsibility that comes with that freedom, and the American Library Association is obviously all about denying that responsibility with the cute little phrase &#8220;it must be the responsibility of the parent&#8230;&#8221; All fine and dandy until we take a look at what is happening in public schools and with teen culture. </p>
<p>I do not advocate Nazi style censorship by any means, but there is a certain point where some things are to be considered obscene, and even some comic book shop owners have stated that this particular issue of The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen is obscene and should be for mature readers only, one even went so far as to say she has warned parents of its content before they made the purchase for their children, because like most people with a dose of common sense, she realizes not every parent takes the time to read or look through what their children are reading. If they did the Gossip Girl &#8220;genre&#8221; of books wouldn&#8217;t be on shelves.</p>
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		<title>Comment on “Librarians” and “Pornography” by Jim D.</title>
		<link>http://www.acrl.ala.org/ifc/2009/10/%e2%80%9clibrarians%e2%80%9d-and-%e2%80%9cpornography%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-530</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 15:02:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.acrl.ala.org/ifc/?p=116#comment-530</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dan:
Taking a book off hold isn&#039;t censorship.  Refusing to check a book out to a patron, on the other hand, is censorship, and that&#039;s a more realistic assessment of what happened.  

I&#039;m not sure what some libraries are doing with Scientific American, but yes, a library can make a financial decision about what to carry or not.  In the cases I&#039;m aware of, the paper subscription is being dropped, but the library still has online access through multiple pathways.  In fact, MANY libraries are shifting MANY journal and magazine subscriptions to electronic only.  That is not censorship, because patrons still have unrestricted access. 

As to &quot;in loco parentis&quot;, a public library has no legal right to do that, unlike a school (or even a school library).  For a public library to decide what a minor patron can or cannot read or check out would infringe parental rights and responsibilities.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan:<br />
Taking a book off hold isn&#8217;t censorship.  Refusing to check a book out to a patron, on the other hand, is censorship, and that&#8217;s a more realistic assessment of what happened.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure what some libraries are doing with Scientific American, but yes, a library can make a financial decision about what to carry or not.  In the cases I&#8217;m aware of, the paper subscription is being dropped, but the library still has online access through multiple pathways.  In fact, MANY libraries are shifting MANY journal and magazine subscriptions to electronic only.  That is not censorship, because patrons still have unrestricted access. </p>
<p>As to &#8220;in loco parentis&#8221;, a public library has no legal right to do that, unlike a school (or even a school library).  For a public library to decide what a minor patron can or cannot read or check out would infringe parental rights and responsibilities.</p>
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		<title>Comment on “Librarians” and “Pornography” by Dan Kleinman</title>
		<link>http://www.acrl.ala.org/ifc/2009/10/%e2%80%9clibrarians%e2%80%9d-and-%e2%80%9cpornography%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-528</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Kleinman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 00:35:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.acrl.ala.org/ifc/?p=116#comment-528</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree.  

It saddens me to see comments like this one from a university librarian: &quot;I think they should have been fired.  We have enough problems with censorship without our employees helping it along.&quot; 

A university librarian.  If taking a book off hold is considered &quot;censorship,&quot; what is it called when university librarians are ditching Scientific American magazine in droves just because the price is going up for university subscriptions?  Might it also be called &quot;censorship&quot;?  Is saving money an acceptable justification in multiple libraries while protecting children or acting in loco parentis in a single library is not?  See, &quot;Scientific American Price Change Defended; Oberlin Group Not Convinced; Library Directors Say They&#039;re Disappointed, Will Let Market Respond,&quot; by Norman Oder, Library Journal, 23 October 2009.

Thank you.  The university library/&quot;censorship&quot; of SciAm issue is an aside.  Feel free not to respond.  

Be that as it may, your blog post and response are so informational, I&#039;m going to be checking in on this blog more often. Thanks again.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree.  </p>
<p>It saddens me to see comments like this one from a university librarian: &#8220;I think they should have been fired.  We have enough problems with censorship without our employees helping it along.&#8221; </p>
<p>A university librarian.  If taking a book off hold is considered &#8220;censorship,&#8221; what is it called when university librarians are ditching Scientific American magazine in droves just because the price is going up for university subscriptions?  Might it also be called &#8220;censorship&#8221;?  Is saving money an acceptable justification in multiple libraries while protecting children or acting in loco parentis in a single library is not?  See, &#8220;Scientific American Price Change Defended; Oberlin Group Not Convinced; Library Directors Say They&#8217;re Disappointed, Will Let Market Respond,&#8221; by Norman Oder, Library Journal, 23 October 2009.</p>
<p>Thank you.  The university library/&#8221;censorship&#8221; of SciAm issue is an aside.  Feel free not to respond.  </p>
<p>Be that as it may, your blog post and response are so informational, I&#8217;m going to be checking in on this blog more often. Thanks again.</p>
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		<title>Comment on “Librarians” and “Pornography” by Jim D.</title>
		<link>http://www.acrl.ala.org/ifc/2009/10/%e2%80%9clibrarians%e2%80%9d-and-%e2%80%9cpornography%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-527</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 00:19:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.acrl.ala.org/ifc/?p=116#comment-527</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree that the firing was draconian, *IF* it was over just this one incident.  The library is unlikely to disclose personnel matters, but I can&#039;t help wondering if there were other incidents or if the employees in question refused to modify their behavior to comply with policy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that the firing was draconian, *IF* it was over just this one incident.  The library is unlikely to disclose personnel matters, but I can&#8217;t help wondering if there were other incidents or if the employees in question refused to modify their behavior to comply with policy.</p>
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		<title>Comment on “Librarians” and “Pornography” by Paul Beavers</title>
		<link>http://www.acrl.ala.org/ifc/2009/10/%e2%80%9clibrarians%e2%80%9d-and-%e2%80%9cpornography%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-526</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Beavers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 19:14:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.acrl.ala.org/ifc/?p=116#comment-526</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Dan. I have checked out your posting and the comments and I urge the other readers of this blog to give them a look. I was interested to learn that the specific volume in question was The Black Dossier, the third volume of The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.

I didn&#039;t want to go too far astray in my blog post so I didn&#039;t address the severity of the punishment. If the sole offense of these two staff members was to take the requested book off the hold shelf, I think firing them was far too severe. The point of my piece was that all of us (&quot;real&quot; librarians or support staff) will feel a strong antipathy  toward some materials and, unless we are kept well trained on intellectual freedom issues, we act on our feelings rather than on our professional ethics. 

Firing these two women seems draconian to me. As seriously as I take their misstep, I think it calls for serious conversation and training and not unemployment. Indeed, by acting so severely, the  Jessamine Public Library has made the punishment the focus of the story. I don&#039;t think WTVQ-TV would have covered the story, but for the firing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Dan. I have checked out your posting and the comments and I urge the other readers of this blog to give them a look. I was interested to learn that the specific volume in question was The Black Dossier, the third volume of The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t want to go too far astray in my blog post so I didn&#8217;t address the severity of the punishment. If the sole offense of these two staff members was to take the requested book off the hold shelf, I think firing them was far too severe. The point of my piece was that all of us (&#8220;real&#8221; librarians or support staff) will feel a strong antipathy  toward some materials and, unless we are kept well trained on intellectual freedom issues, we act on our feelings rather than on our professional ethics. </p>
<p>Firing these two women seems draconian to me. As seriously as I take their misstep, I think it calls for serious conversation and training and not unemployment. Indeed, by acting so severely, the  Jessamine Public Library has made the punishment the focus of the story. I don&#8217;t think WTVQ-TV would have covered the story, but for the firing.</p>
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		<title>Comment on “Librarians” and “Pornography” by Dan Kleinman</title>
		<link>http://www.acrl.ala.org/ifc/2009/10/%e2%80%9clibrarians%e2%80%9d-and-%e2%80%9cpornography%e2%80%9d/comment-page-1/#comment-524</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Kleinman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:26:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.acrl.ala.org/ifc/?p=116#comment-524</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Paul, interesting.  But couldn&#039;t there have been some other remedy short of firing?  What are the possible alternatives?  Is it possible the firings were made to make a statement, so to speak?  What statement might that have been?  Similarly, is there any other action the librarians could have taken such as advising the parents?

Thanks.  Interesting blog post.  I blogged on this too.  Click the link on my name to see what I said.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul, interesting.  But couldn&#8217;t there have been some other remedy short of firing?  What are the possible alternatives?  Is it possible the firings were made to make a statement, so to speak?  What statement might that have been?  Similarly, is there any other action the librarians could have taken such as advising the parents?</p>
<p>Thanks.  Interesting blog post.  I blogged on this too.  Click the link on my name to see what I said.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Celebrating Banned Books at University of Arizona by Paul Beavers</title>
		<link>http://www.acrl.ala.org/ifc/2009/10/celebrating-banned-books-at-university-of-arizona/comment-page-1/#comment-520</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Beavers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 19:28:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.acrl.ala.org/ifc/?p=108#comment-520</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As a collection developer in religion and philosophy, it fell to me to purchase books on creationism and intelligent design. I did want to ignore such materials because I knew they were representative of a large number of people&#039;s religious beliefs and that intelligent design arguments might well be of some interest to the faculty and students in philosophy.

Buying books in those areas was, however, something I found worrisome. I wanted some of the popular press treatments of these issues, but so many were being published I could hardly purchase them all. Moreover, it was often hard to distinguish between what holders of those positions would consider scholarly and what I considered popular press. 

I was always questioning myself as to whether I was rejecting a book because I disagreed with it or because its content was already well established in the collection. And, when I bought such books, I would question whether liberal guilt was leading me to buy something that truly wasn&#039;t worthy of the collection.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a collection developer in religion and philosophy, it fell to me to purchase books on creationism and intelligent design. I did want to ignore such materials because I knew they were representative of a large number of people&#8217;s religious beliefs and that intelligent design arguments might well be of some interest to the faculty and students in philosophy.</p>
<p>Buying books in those areas was, however, something I found worrisome. I wanted some of the popular press treatments of these issues, but so many were being published I could hardly purchase them all. Moreover, it was often hard to distinguish between what holders of those positions would consider scholarly and what I considered popular press. </p>
<p>I was always questioning myself as to whether I was rejecting a book because I disagreed with it or because its content was already well established in the collection. And, when I bought such books, I would question whether liberal guilt was leading me to buy something that truly wasn&#8217;t worthy of the collection.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Shameful Treatment of Scholars by Paul Beavers</title>
		<link>http://www.acrl.ala.org/ifc/2009/09/shameful-treatment-of-scholars/comment-page-1/#comment-438</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Beavers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 14:51:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.acrl.ala.org/ifc/?p=84#comment-438</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The reason I used the word &quot;shameful&quot; in my title was that I&#039;m well aware that there are actions one can take that are not legally wrong that are nonetheless contemptible.  

The publishers of the Journal of Homosexuality manipulated  Verstraete and De Cecco&#039;s trust in order to resolve their immediate problems with “Same-Sex Desire and Love in Greco-Roman Antiquity.” In doing so, they demonstrated a complete indifference to wasting the efforts of those two men as well as the scholars who wrote articles specifically for &quot;Sexual Intimacy between Adult and Adolescent Males.”  

The Taylor and Francis Group neither violated a contract nor broke a law. Indeed, because the volume can be published elsewhere, they have not engaged in censorship. But conning people who trust you is something of which honorable people and corporations should be ashamed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The reason I used the word &#8220;shameful&#8221; in my title was that I&#8217;m well aware that there are actions one can take that are not legally wrong that are nonetheless contemptible.  </p>
<p>The publishers of the Journal of Homosexuality manipulated  Verstraete and De Cecco&#8217;s trust in order to resolve their immediate problems with “Same-Sex Desire and Love in Greco-Roman Antiquity.” In doing so, they demonstrated a complete indifference to wasting the efforts of those two men as well as the scholars who wrote articles specifically for &#8220;Sexual Intimacy between Adult and Adolescent Males.”  </p>
<p>The Taylor and Francis Group neither violated a contract nor broke a law. Indeed, because the volume can be published elsewhere, they have not engaged in censorship. But conning people who trust you is something of which honorable people and corporations should be ashamed.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Shameful Treatment of Scholars by Rosana Gutierrez</title>
		<link>http://www.acrl.ala.org/ifc/2009/09/shameful-treatment-of-scholars/comment-page-1/#comment-430</link>
		<dc:creator>Rosana Gutierrez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 16:43:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.acrl.ala.org/ifc/?p=84#comment-430</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t think that the publishers were treated unfairly.  They were not promised publication they assumed that it would be published.  In order to have a valid contract it must be in writing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think that the publishers were treated unfairly.  They were not promised publication they assumed that it would be published.  In order to have a valid contract it must be in writing.</p>
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